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At Evernote, they conflated bounce with churn - and Phil challenges us not to. The risk then is the bounce - crummy early first-time users don’t stick. Phil sees most startups pushing too hard on growth too early. But you can only try to affect some of them at any given time. Now at mmhmm, they set daily goals for each arrow. And each arrow above that pointed up was bad … and each one that pointed down was good. At Evernote, with 450 employees, they had a team on each arrow. Most users are on “Arrow 11” above - they’ve never used your product.

Phil notes almost all startup questions can be answered via a “state machine”.

And your job as a founder is to move a subset to high-value users. For example, there are always 7.8 billion people who could use your product - the whole planet :). The thesis was many metrics were too easy to game. At Evernote, there was a push to do more and more analysis on the metrics and numbers. Be Careful About the Metrics and Ratios You Pick. The talk is definitely focused on the early days, so if you’re at Scale, it may be more of a trip down memory lane … but it was a great and super engaging presentation.

At SaaStr Annual’s Digital Day, Phil Libin, CEO of mmhmm and previously CEO of Evernote, shared his top learnings building SaaS products.